The apostles counted that an honor. Never! The worlds fierce winds are blowing, This is something that all Christians in a church community should take to heart. The posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments both here and on Twitter from anonymous people. Thats really the point. Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. And probably just as Drama-Rama and Fundy about it, Magick Crystals and all. Then, you proceeded to brag on social media about how you werent releasing your full statement and had convinced other men with statements to do the same. elastigirl: but ultimately it means people are brainwashed into being acquiescent, passive, accommodating, maintaining their silence. Churches will line up for this. In every church I was part of the pastor put forth a list of men to choose from, and the pastor was appointed from outside the church. Harvest Bible Chapel Jan 2010 - Dec 20178 years Greater Chicago Area Led media team, producing movies, short films, and large-scale videos. In reality both of you have despised the real Jesus and have lived a life promoting a false one that does not care how much you made or JMac. RAWR!, I doubt that the facts will stop MacDonald from making an unrepentant comeback. I hope you do for your own sake so you do not end up like the Pharisees that Jesus plainly stated were headed straight to an eternity in hell. At their final congregational meeting, they became a Harvest Bible Chapelgifting their building to us. Jenkins has produced many TV series and films. Max: America needs more Vietnamese restaurants than New Calvinist church plants. I dont know, if one follows Twitter, there are several who have commented that attended church with JMac in his youth, and they have nothing positive to say about him or his character from way back. So instead of trying to defend these rascals, I prefer to inform and warn the church about the wolves in their midst rather than giving them a break. Who are you to tell people to shut up anyway? And all youre ever going to be is mean Gods blessings to you. . Was it released or leaked? Amy Moore. Youre standing on the right box, IMO. We all know who is trustworthy, mature and wise to go to for advice or counsel. Harvests former CFO, Fred Adams, now runs a sketchy consulting group that helps wealthy elite church insiders set up secret LLCs to buy church buildings so that the churches can then transfer wealth to them in the form of both monthly rentals instead of building equity for the members, while also authorizing the campuses to make major improvements and expansions that cost millions, which will then belong to the LLC owners, not the flock. Hang on. And before any more electrons needlessly perish, an argument about the validity of the pastoral office vs elders is probably not the real issue in the HBC case. So this notion of a pastor as single leader being completely made up well after the Bible was written, simply not biblical at all, purely cultural tradition, I think youd be safe to say that said book most certainly does not indicate that one assuming an unbiblical, made-up official office does not need to be heeded, but rather corrected, censured or even disciplined and thrown out of the church for their audacity and biblical ignorance. +++++++++++++++. Too bad there is not a single human being on the planet that is qualified. His client, the alleged molester, told him they were false. . It is designed to provide a worship experience for people in remote communities or for those who otherwise cannot join us live for the service. There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, all while commenting from anonymous online handles. We have partnered with Grace Theological Seminary and Chicago Partnership to move onward in equipping leaders to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The bit about only a unanimous vote of their executive council being able to remove the lead pastor theres a recipe for success when grievous wolves are not unexpected. Vincent: you must have first hand knowledge and part of that fellowship in some fashion. Take away the money and you will find far fewer wolves circling the pot. I really cant come up with a legitimate reason for why these Pastors and Elders are continuing to conceal the truth while realizing that doing so will result in decades of further abuse. And this is a relatively new development in protestantism, its just 45-50 years old. If I read this right, Guidepost will stay quiet when the SBC gets upset? If their purpose or endeavor is of human origin, it will fail. When I left the church I had served very visibly in for over a decade, ONE person made the effort to seek me out to wish me farewell. We are Harvest a vertical church in two locations in West Michigan (Spring Lake. Throughout the many posts, including this one, there has been some balance and at least an appearance to be open for discussion, albeit without original proof. My family faced a similar situation years ago. Law Prof: I think Sinclair Lewis was an emotional infant and had a lot more in common with Elmer Gantry than he had the introspection to see. It is the internal nagging I have following Dees post on Friday about JD Hall and Braxton Caner. And what is love? Oh Dallas, for heavens sake, cut it out. So many things bring to mind what Leah Remini is bringing to light. Just them asking me to become an elder told me something was wrong. William J. Stewart. The leaders of Harvest clearly did not shin light of problems; in fact it well documented now they were bullies/godfathers supressing thetruth. January 19, 2016 Subscribe to Podcast What's in this session? At Harvest Kids, we love teaching Gods Word. Muff Potter: The daughter of Matt Slick (big-gun-reformed-apologist) converted to fundamental atheism. Yeah, thats it self-esteem. And if this instance is questionable, then all posts and claims are questionable and credibility goes out the window all because Dee knows best for everyone and will not allow discussion after making claims with no supporting evidence. A person who thinks they are qualified, is someone who may need to take some time to discern whether thats true. James mocking his own flock with his outrageous private Cabo party to end all parties, with the $50,000 magician, wont go unanswered. Milholland did this exact same thing at his former church, Hope Church in Memphis. In March of 2000, Harvest Bible Chapel adopted the mission to establish Gospel-believing, Bible-teaching churches. Fisher, thank you for those words of life and hope. If they couldnt get it right after three years of intensive time with Jesus, what chance do we have? Jenkins is a former member of the Executive Leadership Team at Harvest Bible Chapel where he served as the Executive Director of Vertical Church Media. 37 were here. Im sure it depends on the setting and the ministry of the church. And I know I post too much. If a familys personal pain about a very private matter doesnt fit that category, I dont know what would. they also have worthy things to say which others benefit from. not given to wine Temptation sharp and keen. We now see, via ECFA, that these massive personal perks were evidently excluded from their comp review, meaning James has likely been under reporting his income to the IRS by hundreds of thousands a year. Dallas Jenkins and Dean Butters letters are only two of six submitted to the Elders. To this day I feel used, abused, and very stupid for not catching on. Good words, Fisher. Remember when we videotaped us all playing The Name Game? For some, that would be a great option. . In church context, it may even be worse than the secular business context because in addition to the objective institutional power wielded by the narcissist CEO, there is the presumption of divine authority which legitimates the misuse of power. It's God who opens doors, but we must walk through them. Great! It is pure hearsay or flat gossip to engage in tearing down other church bodies in an effort to be judge and jury in the place of God. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? (As well as send a message to any possible Dissidents.) you are a very comforting presence here, Max. Praise God for TWW and other watchblogs who do their best to get the word out on these guys, but you cant stop the spiritually illiterate from attending their exciting churches. Feb 14, 2022 . TS00: because sometimes I feel pretty alone in this wilderness. hard for me to imagine a job description for this that commands a big salary, let alone a modest salary. And in January, Moody installed Mark Jobe as the 10 th President of the Moody Bible Institute, replacing Thornton who had served as interim president. In a godly biblical hierarchy, what would flow downhill would be love and care. I do have to apologize for a comment that I made that was based on my faulty memory of the facts. No. Almost that exact thing happened at the neocalvinist church I attended. *whispers* Its possible it wasnt three years. Their goals are solidly biblical, and the show appears to be bearing fruit to the glory . Sadly, it is not uncommon to find that in time of great loss, the church is not really there for them after all, that in case of health problems that make one unable to serve, they are quickly forgotten, that the great majority of those friendships have a tendency to evaporate or even turn to shunning if put to the test; that it was all a grand illusion, after all the time, effort and loyalty invested. information from others can be beneficial. This is accomplished mainly through having only a few puppet elders who are as dirty as the head pastor, hence, the 3 out of state elders Driscoll chose. David: Fred Adams former Harvest CFO has a serious gambling addiction. . You have been on the pulse, on target, and on the money with each and every post I have read on Twitter and now on TWW. As you think, consider the following passages of Scripture: From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders [PRESBUTEROS] of the churchTherefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers [EPISKOPOS], to shepherd [POIMEN] the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. (Acts 20:17, 28), The elders [PRESBUTEROS] who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder [PRESBUTEROS] and a witness of the suffering of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed; shepherd [POIMEN] the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers [EPISKOPOS], not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly. (1 Peter 5:1-2). Forgive MacDonald if he genuinely repents? perhaps the other side of this coin can be the joy and happiness of discovering the magnificence of fellow human beings outside the context of christian culture. that exploited the public of Harvest Bible Chapel (the profits of which you enjoyed and benefited from). The 7 elders below were given an opportunity to step down and avoid this lawsuit. Your apoplectic friend needs to go read the Bible, maybe one of those verses the mega preachers who demand your trust intentionally ignore or havent read themselves, like this one: Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save. Psalms 146:3, Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25, Do not trust a neighbor; put no confidence in a friend. When people look back on the history of the American evangelical movement in the first years of the third millennium, I sure hope they will shake their heads and ask why we put up with this nonsense for so long. Here are some of my running thoughts of the statement. His client, the alleged molester, told him they were false. One of my concerns with much of the Reformed world is their higher regard for doctrine and authority over the individual lost and needy soul. They existed to serve him as *yes* men and in that respect, they are quite accomplished. * Gaga sees them as self-righteous. The bear was later seen using the gun to defend itself against local mice and rabbits., PASTOR has to Keep Up With The (Paige) Pattersons, you know. But hundreds of others have similar testimony. If you had anything, Dallas, youd have shared it. Founded in 1988, it has grown to seven campuses in the Chicago metropolitan area. Heard somewhere; Hell never be a great man.. The Four Pillars of HBC: 1 - PROCLAIMING the authority of God's Word without apology. Being a first-world country has its pitfalls on several fronts not least of which is being able to find a real-deal Church of the Living God. others have encountered the bright, blinding light (minus the horse, not on the road to Damascus) and heard a voice self-identified as Jesus (including a few people i know). Jimmy Evans, Head of Marriage Today TV & Sr Pastor and Apostle of Gateway Church, is reportedly in contact with James MacDonald. Whatever we do as a church family, this is Gods work among us this is His church and His mission, to the glory of Jesus Christ. Sadly, it is not uncommon to find that in time of great loss, the church is not really there for them after all, that in case of health problems that make one unable to serve, they are quickly forgotten, that the great majority of those friendships have a tendency to evaporate or even turn to shunning if put to the test; that it was all a grand illusion, after all the time, effort and loyalty invested. All of the above is not an option, but it seems hard to pick one over any other. PRESBUTEROS, when translated to our English language becomes elder or presbyter. so you dont. Exactly what were people afraid of? I am not saying that I am a proponent of hierarchy. Just Do. Then, he apologized and said the would teach the high school Bible class. You have not taken full responsibility for your actions. He is faithful, gracious, merciful, kind and always desires and seeks out your best. Anyone reading the title of this weeks article might very well say, Its Greek to me, and would be right! and bring me another beer. I know Jesus is real and know He loves me, but too much of the Bible and Jesus name got mixed up with the abuse going on to my children, my wife, my friends and me. I love you, TS100, and I appreciate so much of what you say. Sandy: In the history of the church, which is most seductive: money, sex, or power? and they have everyone scared spitless that if they vocalize their concerns about what is unethical in their church, & in their tribe, they will disappoint God, Its like a slow drip how the top dogs at HBC are resigning one by one! If anything, out of all the ashes has come a humbling of my spirit. I dont blame the Thompsons. ++++++++++++++++. To be brief. This campus is a close-knit family of Christ-followers who are deeply committed to living out the gospel and seeing God use their church to impact their community. When youve been around as long as I have, you learn some things. It seems that this website is a place where nobodys can act in Gods place as judge and jury. Vague and almost never supported accusations, e.g., the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the commentshere is always, in my experience, just a smear from someone whos actually rather cowardly and just looking to defame. Forget about the so called leaders. into playing a role in a conspiracy they do not even grasp. Because he met the qualifications for eldership? It must be recognized that all three words refer to the same position within the church. husband of one wife You are wrong on that point.The NT writers do make the point that there should be payment and encourage readers to do so. In a statement written by church elders, the Chicago-area megachurch says they fired MacDonald for "engaging in conduct contrary and harmful to the best . God put you there, who are you to take yourself out? In the last two years, 75% of the Executive Leadership team has left HBC. But I suspect that since McDonalds first job is being a pastor, it would not surprise me if this was a canned hunt. Amy Moore, Thats when the insanity really began. Theres a difference between people who hunt professionally for a living, indigenous hunters who hunt as part of their tribal culture, and rich guys like James McDonald who do it to knock another item off their bucket list. I know some people will disagree with me, but thats just my opinion. I will reflect on your honesty and embrace the possibilities. (1 Peter 4:14). There was no glory or wealth in being a shepherd, once one of the more despised positions due to its lowliness. honest, at personal cost. He lied. Thanks to TWW and other watchblogs for standing in the gap. It will not be revealed to any of the flock members that they are paying for SM and then to transfer over $1M a yr to the head pastor. I agree with those who say that Dee is fair with her control of her blog. none of that matters now. Having the equipment available to produce, record, and stream the services completely online, Harvest was able to continue to preach Gods Word unapologetically and worship unashamedly. And thats before one adds in the problem of self-deception. I have my faith left, but so much that I thought was real about my faith has been shaken off. All of the above is not an option, but it seems hard to pick one over any other. Anonymity is not the same thing as cowardice, but thanks so much for playing that tired old game. I have a peace in knowing It is always, My friends are here, My kids depend on the youth group, or Who is going to bury me?. Wonderful, on point comment. they are kind. not quick-tempered Because I was asked to consider serving on the elder board there three days before I leftand the topic of 1Tim 3 wasnt brought up. The manipulation, gaslighting, covering up, mismanagement at an epic level, and complete dysfunction leading to multiple teachers leaving in the middle of the year (some without any notice simply walking out because of the issues which were not being acknowledged or addressed) were devastating to many families. I couldnt post that letter due to my absolute disgust at the depths to which MacDonald has sunk. If you dont get why your letter was leaked and why people are upset, I would say youre isolated and you need to take the blinders off. This will always happen, there is no way to avoid it. We were hissing at them Close you eyes! and doing our best to throw ourselves in front of the smallest ones. My church is also a UMC church looking at that kind of ministry. a human-designated term. How does he know that? Faith Driven Team September 6, 2021 Bio, Christian investor, Voice. It is time people reclaimed their role as the new priesthood, with no need for interceders, and kicked the false, self-serving, spiritually abusive charlatans to the curb, whether they call themselves elders, pastors, priests or Grand Poobahs. it is wrong. Bridget: I dont know, Ken. Nothing is more dangerous than a tyrant who genuinely believes in his own false mission. I believe that would be the consensus of the Body of Christ at large, after getting a glimpse of his shenanigans.
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